1 00:00:13,930 --> 00:00:09,110 welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast 2 00:00:17,140 --> 00:00:13,940 from Australia for science and reason 3 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:21,650 [Music] 4 00:00:27,779 --> 00:00:24,130 yes it's the skeptic zone podcast 5 00:00:30,150 --> 00:00:27,789 episode number 523 for the 28th of 6 00:00:31,890 --> 00:00:30,160 October 2018 richardsaunders here with 7 00:00:33,119 --> 00:00:31,900 you from Sydney Australia and I don't 8 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:33,129 know if the microphone can pick it up 9 00:00:38,820 --> 00:00:35,890 but the birds are chirping outside this 10 00:00:40,710 --> 00:00:38,830 time of the year spring coming well some 11 00:00:45,210 --> 00:00:40,720 are coming or something like that all 12 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:45,220 sorts of birds start to chirp outside 13 00:00:50,160 --> 00:00:47,890 the skeptics own window even at 4 14 00:00:53,340 --> 00:00:50,170 o'clock in the morning sometimes coming 15 00:00:56,039 --> 00:00:53,350 up on this week's show lots of 16 00:00:57,689 --> 00:00:56,049 interviews and reports from skeptic on a 17 00:00:59,579 --> 00:00:57,699 couple of weeks ago here in Sydney 18 00:01:01,649 --> 00:00:59,589 Australia are the Australian skeptics 19 00:01:04,530 --> 00:01:01,659 National Convention we're gonna kick off 20 00:01:06,570 --> 00:01:04,540 with well running around microphones i 21 00:01:08,730 --> 00:01:06,580 chat to mandelino with one of our 22 00:01:11,460 --> 00:01:08,740 reporters another one of our reporters 23 00:01:14,219 --> 00:01:11,470 Heidi Robertson the raw skeptic the 24 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:14,229 guerrilla skepticism on Wikipedia team 25 00:01:20,429 --> 00:01:17,290 who are at the convention and dr. sue 26 00:01:23,399 --> 00:01:20,439 Blackmore one of the presenters Paul 27 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:23,409 very informal all these people were sort 28 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:25,770 of in the foyer of the convention 29 00:01:30,749 --> 00:01:28,210 chatting to people having a cup of tea 30 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:30,759 that sort of thing which was a nice time 31 00:01:34,740 --> 00:01:32,890 to catch up with them following that a 32 00:01:39,810 --> 00:01:34,750 report from Australian skeptics for a 33 00:01:44,340 --> 00:01:39,820 plea or a a message how you yes you how 34 00:01:47,609 --> 00:01:44,350 you can send your ideas and be more 35 00:01:50,459 --> 00:01:47,619 involved with skepticism the Australian 36 00:01:53,399 --> 00:01:50,469 skeptics are looking for ideas and your 37 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:53,409 input details coming up later on in the 38 00:01:57,359 --> 00:01:53,890 show 39 00:02:00,239 --> 00:01:57,369 then it's Maynard spooky action may not 40 00:02:02,730 --> 00:02:00,249 spooky action at a distance this week 41 00:02:06,539 --> 00:02:02,740 Evette don't Thurmont thus I babe part 42 00:02:08,820 --> 00:02:06,549 one may not end Eve it for a chatting 43 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:08,830 for a long time so I've sort of split 44 00:02:13,490 --> 00:02:10,450 the interview up into three parts this 45 00:02:17,250 --> 00:02:13,500 week part one may not also check to 46 00:02:19,140 --> 00:02:17,260 doctor varam Sharma and Trish Han who 47 00:02:21,150 --> 00:02:19,150 you here on the skeptic zone from time 48 00:02:23,850 --> 00:02:21,160 to time now she's a woman I have a cup 49 00:02:25,710 --> 00:02:23,860 of coffee with when you hear the 50 00:02:26,640 --> 00:02:25,720 promotion for the good thinking society 51 00:02:28,710 --> 00:02:26,650 from time to time 52 00:02:31,540 --> 00:02:28,720 in fact Trish gave a really interesting 53 00:02:36,790 --> 00:02:34,870 aimed at women now before we get into 54 00:02:38,620 --> 00:02:36,800 the show a quick reminder if you're in 55 00:02:40,990 --> 00:02:38,630 New Zealand or you're heading to New 56 00:02:44,170 --> 00:02:41,000 Zealand later next month 57 00:02:46,660 --> 00:02:44,180 the New Zealand skeptics conference is 58 00:02:49,950 --> 00:02:46,670 going to be held in Auckland from Friday 59 00:02:52,570 --> 00:02:49,960 the 16th to Sunday the 18th of November 60 00:02:54,790 --> 00:02:52,580 one of our committee members here from 61 00:02:56,890 --> 00:02:54,800 Australian skeptics Ian Bryce now 62 00:02:59,020 --> 00:02:56,900 challenge coordinator investigator will 63 00:03:01,600 --> 00:02:59,030 be heading over to give a talk and you 64 00:03:05,830 --> 00:03:01,610 can find out more at Conference dot 65 00:03:09,100 --> 00:03:05,840 skeptics dot NZ and if you're in Sydney 66 00:03:11,890 --> 00:03:09,110 Australia this Thursday the 1st of 67 00:03:14,170 --> 00:03:11,900 November at skeptics in the pub at the 68 00:03:17,350 --> 00:03:14,180 Occidental hotel just near Wynyard 69 00:03:19,930 --> 00:03:17,360 station we have our guest is David 70 00:03:22,810 --> 00:03:19,940 Rosenberg he'll be talking about his 71 00:03:24,100 --> 00:03:22,820 book Pine Gap now you would have heard a 72 00:03:25,900 --> 00:03:24,110 couple of interviews with David 73 00:03:28,870 --> 00:03:25,910 Rosenberg over the last few weeks on the 74 00:03:31,540 --> 00:03:28,880 skeptics urn now everybody's welcome to 75 00:03:34,810 --> 00:03:31,550 come along to skeptics in the pub in 76 00:03:37,630 --> 00:03:34,820 Sydney but if you want to be kept up to 77 00:03:43,740 --> 00:03:37,640 date you can join the meetup group which 78 00:03:46,540 --> 00:03:43,750 is meetup.com slash Aust a ust skeptics 79 00:03:48,580 --> 00:03:46,550 I'll link to that in the show notes it's 80 00:03:50,020 --> 00:03:48,590 the first Thursday of every month and we 81 00:03:52,270 --> 00:03:50,030 always try to have an interesting 82 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:52,280 speaker for you all right I don't know 83 00:03:57,640 --> 00:03:53,810 where those skeptics own cats are this 84 00:04:01,060 --> 00:03:57,650 week they were around a bit before I'm 85 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:01,070 gonna run downstairs I'm gonna open a 86 00:04:07,330 --> 00:04:05,330 tin of cat food give the skeptics own 87 00:04:09,610 --> 00:04:07,340 catch their dinner while I'm doing that 88 00:04:17,910 --> 00:04:09,620 I hope you enjoy the skeptic zone 89 00:04:20,940 --> 00:04:17,920 [Music] 90 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:20,950 [Applause] 91 00:04:34,170 --> 00:04:33,480 I'm walking out into the foyer here with 92 00:04:35,879 --> 00:04:34,180 me neither 93 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:35,889 lots of people here may not looks pretty 94 00:04:38,550 --> 00:04:37,330 good look everyone's really busy lots of 95 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:38,560 people of toners try and get a bargain 96 00:04:42,210 --> 00:04:40,570 at one of the stalls so there's a lot of 97 00:04:44,340 --> 00:04:42,220 people buying a good tour it's good to 98 00:04:46,379 --> 00:04:44,350 get a good it's got a sceptical good Oh 99 00:04:46,860 --> 00:04:46,389 get in left Brian if that was buying a 100 00:04:52,499 --> 00:04:46,870 good 101 00:04:55,159 --> 00:04:52,509 let's just go chapter a few people let's 102 00:04:59,249 --> 00:04:57,629 it's all happening here in the foyer of 103 00:05:02,010 --> 00:04:59,259 the Australian skeptics convention 104 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:02,020 skeptic on goodness me it's skeptic zone 105 00:05:07,110 --> 00:05:04,330 reporter Mandy lean Noble the diet 106 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:07,120 skeptic hello hello Richard hey Joey um 107 00:05:10,230 --> 00:05:09,250 well it's great to see you here looks 108 00:05:13,050 --> 00:05:10,240 like we're in for a great conference 109 00:05:15,089 --> 00:05:13,060 yeah there's some a lot of people 110 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:15,099 arriving everyone's really excited we 111 00:05:18,900 --> 00:05:16,810 could line up a speaker so it should be 112 00:05:22,140 --> 00:05:18,910 a good couple of days yeah kicking off 113 00:05:24,060 --> 00:05:22,150 off of dr. Karl who I just I think he's 114 00:05:26,270 --> 00:05:24,070 over there being mobbed by some fans at 115 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:26,280 the moment he's explaining why the 116 00:05:31,439 --> 00:05:29,289 quickest way to the glare focus I think 117 00:05:31,830 --> 00:05:31,449 is fire and time to care or something 118 00:05:33,659 --> 00:05:31,840 like that 119 00:05:36,300 --> 00:05:33,669 he's doing a bit of science on the fly 120 00:05:38,580 --> 00:05:36,310 as he does it sounds exactly like what 121 00:05:42,439 --> 00:05:38,590 something dr. Karl would say he's 122 00:05:45,149 --> 00:05:42,449 drawing diagrams on the back of his pass 123 00:05:46,710 --> 00:05:45,159 I'll be a collector's item no it's great 124 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:46,720 the scene here folks people are grabbing 125 00:05:50,879 --> 00:05:48,490 some last minute coffees milling around 126 00:05:52,529 --> 00:05:50,889 at the registration desk the tip 127 00:05:54,420 --> 00:05:52,539 t-shirts are going did you see the 128 00:05:56,969 --> 00:05:54,430 t-shirt there is some rather nifty 129 00:05:59,129 --> 00:05:56,979 looking merchandise this year some fun 130 00:06:00,290 --> 00:05:59,139 cartoons on the front of t-shirts and 131 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:00,300 things 132 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:02,370 it looks like it's gonna be a fabulous 133 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:06,330 weekend and of course committee over 134 00:06:10,610 --> 00:06:08,610 there they look calm on the outside but 135 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:10,620 not on the inside there no they're doing 136 00:06:15,589 --> 00:06:13,289 ok no doubt they like the ducks on the 137 00:06:17,330 --> 00:06:15,599 water underneath it's going a million 138 00:06:19,189 --> 00:06:17,340 miles an hour those little beat people 139 00:06:21,499 --> 00:06:19,199 to play but it's really well organized 140 00:06:24,399 --> 00:06:21,509 and they've done a supreme job so 141 00:06:27,260 --> 00:06:24,409 alright and I see people already 142 00:06:28,010 --> 00:06:27,270 wandering in to get their seats so I'll 143 00:06:29,510 --> 00:06:28,020 let you do it 144 00:06:34,459 --> 00:06:29,520 thanks a lot Richard and I'll see you 145 00:06:41,270 --> 00:06:34,469 around hello it's skeptic zone reporter 146 00:06:42,860 --> 00:06:41,280 Heidi I know it's a good microphone 147 00:06:43,999 --> 00:06:42,870 thanks to the skipping zone listeners 148 00:06:49,580 --> 00:06:44,009 who paid for it it's a good microphone 149 00:06:50,719 --> 00:06:49,590 it we can handle your shrieks great to 150 00:06:53,089 --> 00:06:50,729 see you here thank you for coming down 151 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:53,099 to be part of the fun oh it's very 152 00:06:58,580 --> 00:06:55,650 exciting and we've actually got Renee 153 00:07:01,580 --> 00:06:58,590 who's first skeptic on it is this year 154 00:07:03,350 --> 00:07:01,590 Renee is has been a member of our 155 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:03,360 Northern Rivers vaccination supporters 156 00:07:07,820 --> 00:07:06,090 group for the five years since we formed 157 00:07:09,890 --> 00:07:07,830 and this is her first skip pickle and 158 00:07:11,809 --> 00:07:09,900 she's come down to have it to have a 159 00:07:13,839 --> 00:07:11,819 look to see what it's all about I hope 160 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:13,849 you are in for a good time I'm very 161 00:07:20,209 --> 00:07:18,210 excited thank you Cheers 162 00:07:22,459 --> 00:07:20,219 just had a selfie with dr. cow so we're 163 00:07:23,180 --> 00:07:22,469 off to a good sound yeah after a very 164 00:07:26,809 --> 00:07:23,190 good start 165 00:07:29,540 --> 00:07:26,819 I'm loving it and I was saying to Renee 166 00:07:31,249 --> 00:07:29,550 I think it was dr. Karl who came up with 167 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:31,259 the term selfie is that that's right 168 00:07:41,590 --> 00:07:38,710 I know you know your mr. memory he gives 169 00:07:44,020 --> 00:07:41,600 a talking way he he discovers that the 170 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:44,030 first use of the term selfie I thought 171 00:07:50,530 --> 00:07:46,130 it was even he then he come up that 172 00:07:52,650 --> 00:07:50,540 knows me in fact there you go there's a 173 00:07:56,170 --> 00:07:52,660 listen to a saw in into fact-checked 174 00:07:57,640 --> 00:07:56,180 check we do we do all right well I'll 175 00:07:59,620 --> 00:07:57,650 let you do it and we'll be catching up 176 00:08:01,600 --> 00:07:59,630 over the course of the weekend very good 177 00:08:02,820 --> 00:08:01,610 looking forward to it way to write you 178 00:08:04,900 --> 00:08:02,830 thank you 179 00:08:08,890 --> 00:08:04,910 it's the table of guerrilla skepticism 180 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:08,900 on Wikipedia gso W hello susan gerbic if 181 00:08:13,060 --> 00:08:09,770 you're listening of course you're 182 00:08:15,670 --> 00:08:13,070 listening and your team are here putting 183 00:08:17,380 --> 00:08:15,680 out the good word hello oh how are you 184 00:08:19,510 --> 00:08:17,390 I'm well how's it going with the 185 00:08:21,340 --> 00:08:19,520 guerrilla skeptics here in Sydney it's 186 00:08:23,410 --> 00:08:21,350 going really well we're having some good 187 00:08:25,830 --> 00:08:23,420 conversations with people and hopefully 188 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:25,840 over the next two days we'll have more 189 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:28,610 and people you're finding people don't 190 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:29,930 know about it or they're interested I'm 191 00:08:34,330 --> 00:08:32,090 surprised that the number of people who 192 00:08:36,250 --> 00:08:34,340 don't know about guerrilla skeptics and 193 00:08:38,980 --> 00:08:36,260 they look at it and they say what is 194 00:08:41,560 --> 00:08:38,990 this and we're just explaining what it 195 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:41,570 is and it's a it's a great group and 196 00:08:45,810 --> 00:08:43,250 we're doing a lot of great work on 197 00:08:48,370 --> 00:08:45,820 Wikipedia all over the world and I see 198 00:08:49,510 --> 00:08:48,380 in front of me that all the Flyers here 199 00:08:54,630 --> 00:08:49,520 little leaflets about guerrilla 200 00:08:58,450 --> 00:08:54,640 skepticism on Wikipedia and its look and 201 00:09:00,410 --> 00:08:58,460 stickers stickers are you can't go wrong 202 00:09:03,470 --> 00:09:00,420 with stickers 203 00:09:05,690 --> 00:09:03,480 so you put that together put that 204 00:09:07,970 --> 00:09:05,700 together but I did use information from 205 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:07,980 a lot of other of the resale people to 206 00:09:13,100 --> 00:09:11,130 put it together so well there you are 207 00:09:15,680 --> 00:09:13,110 Susan go back we're checking in just for 208 00:09:17,780 --> 00:09:15,690 you and of course all the people who 209 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:17,790 don't know about it we're suggesting a 210 00:09:21,770 --> 00:09:19,730 listen to the skeptic zone to learn more 211 00:09:32,210 --> 00:09:21,780 always a good idea 212 00:09:37,439 --> 00:09:34,470 and I have one of the speakers here with 213 00:09:39,300 --> 00:09:37,449 resue Blackwell hello sue hello anyway 214 00:09:42,150 --> 00:09:39,310 you're here to tell us all about your 215 00:09:44,759 --> 00:09:42,160 interesting research into altered states 216 00:09:46,650 --> 00:09:44,769 or out-of-body experiences no it's very 217 00:09:48,449 --> 00:09:46,660 specifically out-of-body experiences and 218 00:09:51,150 --> 00:09:48,459 I have a new book out which sadly they 219 00:09:52,530 --> 00:09:51,160 haven't got here called seeing myself 220 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:52,540 the new science of out-of-body 221 00:09:57,480 --> 00:09:54,850 experiences and it's basically my life's 222 00:10:00,030 --> 00:09:57,490 work and nobody cares because I had this 223 00:10:02,519 --> 00:10:00,040 amazing out-of-body experience in 1970 224 00:10:04,410 --> 00:10:02,529 which I couldn't explain and I got 225 00:10:05,670 --> 00:10:04,420 involved in research and then gave it up 226 00:10:08,910 --> 00:10:05,680 because I couldn't explain it 227 00:10:11,519 --> 00:10:08,920 and now 40 whatever five years later 228 00:10:13,530 --> 00:10:11,529 however many years we have the 229 00:10:15,990 --> 00:10:13,540 neuroscience and we know which bit of 230 00:10:18,329 --> 00:10:16,000 the brain is doing it and has to be 231 00:10:19,470 --> 00:10:18,339 disturbed in order to get you feeling 232 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:19,480 that you're out of your body 233 00:10:23,579 --> 00:10:21,970 and the reason it's so interesting the 234 00:10:25,980 --> 00:10:23,589 reason is that bit of the brain the 235 00:10:28,710 --> 00:10:25,990 right temporoparietal junction is doing 236 00:10:30,569 --> 00:10:28,720 all the self constructing and keeping 237 00:10:31,980 --> 00:10:30,579 track of your body schema where your 238 00:10:34,319 --> 00:10:31,990 arms and legs are what your body is 239 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:34,329 doing so it makes sense when you disturb 240 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:36,850 that you get all these weird distortions 241 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:39,250 of your body and at the extreme you got 242 00:10:43,769 --> 00:10:42,370 your body schema splits and you feel 243 00:10:45,059 --> 00:10:43,779 you're out of your body of course what 244 00:10:46,410 --> 00:10:45,069 you're seeing when you have this 245 00:10:48,030 --> 00:10:46,420 experience is not the truth you're 246 00:10:50,250 --> 00:10:48,040 seeing you know what you remember in 247 00:10:51,990 --> 00:10:50,260 your imagination but the feeling itself 248 00:10:54,329 --> 00:10:52,000 is absolutely real and caused by that 249 00:10:56,250 --> 00:10:54,339 that neural affected oh you've you're 250 00:10:57,960 --> 00:10:56,260 warrior and flying and all that sort of 251 00:10:59,550 --> 00:10:57,970 stuff yeah yeah because what your brain 252 00:11:01,350 --> 00:10:59,560 is doing is trying to get back to normal 253 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:01,360 it's trying to integrate the information 254 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:03,250 from your eyes and ears and your 255 00:11:07,139 --> 00:11:05,050 movement of your legs in your arms and 256 00:11:10,590 --> 00:11:07,149 get them all together to make a sensible 257 00:11:12,059 --> 00:11:10,600 body you know self-representation and it 258 00:11:13,829 --> 00:11:12,069 goes wrong so it's struggling all the 259 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:13,839 time so you're flying and 300 and 260 00:11:17,939 --> 00:11:15,970 whizzing around and kind of trying to 261 00:11:19,470 --> 00:11:17,949 get back together again or else if you 262 00:11:21,660 --> 00:11:19,480 can relax you could just have fun 263 00:11:23,759 --> 00:11:21,670 couldn't enjoy it but the best thing is 264 00:11:25,410 --> 00:11:23,769 to know that it's not astral projection 265 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:25,420 you know it's not an astral body going 266 00:11:29,010 --> 00:11:27,370 to another plane it's your brain doing 267 00:11:31,050 --> 00:11:29,020 amazingly clever things 268 00:11:33,540 --> 00:11:31,060 do we have an idea what the trigger is 269 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:33,550 oh it could be lots of things I now know 270 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:35,890 it's taken me you know all those decades 271 00:11:40,199 --> 00:11:38,410 to find out but it was probably a little 272 00:11:42,420 --> 00:11:40,209 bit economists a lot of sleep 273 00:11:44,610 --> 00:11:42,430 deprivation which specifically affects 274 00:11:46,410 --> 00:11:44,620 that bit of the brain and I've been 275 00:11:48,090 --> 00:11:46,420 having a Ouija board session which kind 276 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:48,100 of deceiver like holding your arm out 277 00:11:52,110 --> 00:11:49,930 for hours with the glass moving around 278 00:11:54,660 --> 00:11:52,120 you know does make your body feel very 279 00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:54,670 weird so those things can do it but 280 00:11:59,490 --> 00:11:57,010 certain drugs will loosen up the body 281 00:12:01,560 --> 00:11:59,500 schema and injuries to the brain and so 282 00:12:03,449 --> 00:12:01,570 on it's anything which affects that 283 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:03,459 selphie bit of the brain that bitless 284 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:05,890 integrating yourself is back if that is 285 00:12:11,550 --> 00:12:09,610 affected then you can get this split so 286 00:12:13,350 --> 00:12:11,560 fascinating I cannot wait to see your 287 00:12:14,940 --> 00:12:13,360 presentation a bit later on thank you 288 00:12:24,650 --> 00:12:14,950 very much they're great to talk to you 289 00:12:31,150 --> 00:12:27,300 [Music] 290 00:12:32,890 --> 00:12:31,160 this is NASA her eyes she a flat earth 291 00:12:35,470 --> 00:12:32,900 but we should lie to everybody about it 292 00:12:38,590 --> 00:12:35,480 and say it's round 10 for maximum fun 293 00:12:41,770 --> 00:12:38,600 brings you the latest podcast an expose 294 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:41,780 aren't the Flat Earth I want to take 295 00:12:45,490 --> 00:12:43,730 advantage of humankind and make them 296 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:45,500 believe a lie so that they will trust us 297 00:12:48,850 --> 00:12:47,090 at the government it's all an elaborate 298 00:12:50,680 --> 00:12:48,860 lie and when you get on a plane they 299 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:50,690 purposefully fly you farther than you 300 00:12:53,620 --> 00:12:51,290 need to go 301 00:12:55,330 --> 00:12:53,630 it's disgusting it needs to be stopped 302 00:12:57,220 --> 00:12:55,340 and if you listen to owner Ross and 303 00:13:03,010 --> 00:12:57,230 Carrie we will tell you the truth behind 304 00:13:04,690 --> 00:13:03,020 the lies we will just tell you the truth 305 00:13:06,940 --> 00:13:04,700 behind the truth because what we do is 306 00:13:08,860 --> 00:13:06,950 we look at extraordinary claims that's 307 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:08,870 right we've gone undercover with 308 00:13:13,410 --> 00:13:10,970 alternative medical treatments fringe 309 00:13:16,390 --> 00:13:13,420 religious groups fringe science claims 310 00:13:18,130 --> 00:13:16,400 spiritual paranormal were there to check 311 00:13:20,410 --> 00:13:18,140 it out and let you know what happens is 312 00:13:23,470 --> 00:13:20,420 the Queen Mary haunted I don't know find 313 00:13:25,450 --> 00:13:23,480 out we show up we make friends we learn 314 00:13:27,550 --> 00:13:25,460 what happens when you ask questions and 315 00:13:30,130 --> 00:13:27,560 we tell you all about it and we get all 316 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:30,140 that funky stuff done to us it's oh no 317 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:33,810 Ross and carry a maximum fund org 318 00:13:42,780 --> 00:13:40,470 now here's a story that comes to us from 319 00:13:45,900 --> 00:13:42,790 the Australian skeptic skeptics calm 320 00:13:50,790 --> 00:13:45,910 today you Australian skeptics campaigns 321 00:13:52,260 --> 00:13:50,800 and investigations have your say by tim 322 00:13:53,620 --> 00:13:52,270 Mendham published on the 1st of October 323 00:13:57,710 --> 00:13:53,630 2018 324 00:14:02,730 --> 00:14:00,389 Australian skeptics Inc is regularly 325 00:14:04,860 --> 00:14:02,740 involved at a range of campaigns and 326 00:14:07,380 --> 00:14:04,870 investigations some of which have been 327 00:14:09,690 --> 00:14:07,390 well publicized like the investigation 328 00:14:12,590 --> 00:14:09,700 into the power band wristband and others 329 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:12,600 that are ongoing and still under wraps 330 00:14:17,310 --> 00:14:15,250 those are we have a subcommittee 331 00:14:19,319 --> 00:14:17,320 dedicated to special investigations 332 00:14:22,079 --> 00:14:19,329 headed up by noted sceptic Richard 333 00:14:24,210 --> 00:14:22,089 Saunders oh there you go 334 00:14:26,730 --> 00:14:24,220 who has been running investigations into 335 00:14:28,769 --> 00:14:26,740 everything from ghosts and Ghoulies the 336 00:14:31,650 --> 00:14:28,779 quack medical treatments for some time 337 00:14:35,100 --> 00:14:31,660 now sure I have we also have ad hoc 338 00:14:37,350 --> 00:14:35,110 committees devoted to specific campaigns 339 00:14:40,410 --> 00:14:37,360 positive ones such as our recent 340 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:40,420 vaccination and blood donor drives and 341 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:42,690 more critical ones that proactively 342 00:14:47,550 --> 00:14:45,130 respond to the promotion of Wuan 343 00:14:50,100 --> 00:14:47,560 pseudoscience such as events put on by 344 00:14:53,069 --> 00:14:50,110 the anti vaccination proponents than 345 00:14:56,009 --> 00:14:53,079 those pushing unproven and disproven 346 00:14:57,960 --> 00:14:56,019 alternative medical practices in many 347 00:14:59,819 --> 00:14:57,970 cases we act in concert with other 348 00:15:02,340 --> 00:14:59,829 groups and individuals who are running 349 00:15:05,540 --> 00:15:02,350 their own programs whether in Australia 350 00:15:08,550 --> 00:15:05,550 or overseas we always welcome 351 00:15:10,769 --> 00:15:08,560 suggestions for new action items whether 352 00:15:13,769 --> 00:15:10,779 a person or organization that needs 353 00:15:15,090 --> 00:15:13,779 looking into or one that needs bringing 354 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:15,100 to the attention of authorities the 355 00:15:21,030 --> 00:15:18,370 media and the public this is your chance 356 00:15:23,759 --> 00:15:21,040 to get involved feel free to contact us 357 00:15:26,490 --> 00:15:23,769 with your tips and suggestions you might 358 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:26,500 also like to add your own active 359 00:15:31,699 --> 00:15:28,570 contribution and play a part in the 360 00:15:34,139 --> 00:15:31,709 campaign and/or investigation itself 361 00:15:36,780 --> 00:15:34,149 we'll be setting up a dedicated online 362 00:15:38,460 --> 00:15:36,790 page for this but in the meantime you 363 00:15:43,420 --> 00:15:38,470 can make your voice heard by writing to 364 00:15:47,549 --> 00:15:43,430 us at editor at skeptics comm dot a you 365 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:50,439 so if you were want to have your say 366 00:15:55,449 --> 00:15:52,970 about being more involved in 367 00:15:57,220 --> 00:15:55,459 investigations I'll link to that page on 368 00:16:19,150 --> 00:15:57,230 this week's show nut 369 00:16:23,270 --> 00:16:19,160 [Music] 370 00:16:26,300 --> 00:16:23,280 dr. Harriet Hall MD no into thousands as 371 00:16:29,420 --> 00:16:26,310 the skeptic a retired family physician 372 00:16:31,460 --> 00:16:29,430 and former Air Force flight surgeon she 373 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:31,470 writes about medicine so-called 374 00:16:34,460 --> 00:16:33,170 complementary and alternative medicine 375 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:34,470 science 376 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:38,250 pakery and critical thinking Harriet now 377 00:16:43,310 --> 00:16:40,890 has a free course a series of 10 video 378 00:16:46,610 --> 00:16:43,320 lectures on science-based medicine and 379 00:16:48,740 --> 00:16:46,620 alternative medicine the videos and an 380 00:16:51,740 --> 00:16:48,750 accompanying course guide can be found 381 00:16:56,350 --> 00:16:51,750 by following the link at skip doc info 382 00:17:01,640 --> 00:16:56,360 or by visiting web Randi's org slash 383 00:17:04,070 --> 00:17:01,650 educational - modules dot html' topics 384 00:17:06,620 --> 00:17:04,080 covered in the series are science-based 385 00:17:10,430 --> 00:17:06,630 medicine versus evidence-based medicine 386 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:10,440 what is Kam chiropractic acupuncture 387 00:17:16,430 --> 00:17:13,650 homeopathy naturopathy and herbal 388 00:17:19,130 --> 00:17:16,440 medicine energy medicine miscellaneous 389 00:17:22,130 --> 00:17:19,140 alternatives pitfalls in research and 390 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:22,140 science based medicine in the media and 391 00:17:28,460 --> 00:17:25,890 politics Harriette covers each topic in 392 00:17:31,730 --> 00:17:28,470 a matter-of-fact no-nonsense way that 393 00:17:33,830 --> 00:17:31,740 sure to educate and entertain skeptic 394 00:17:45,300 --> 00:17:33,840 dot info 395 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:50,320 years may not spooky action at a 396 00:17:57,310 --> 00:17:55,810 well a lot of excitement a lot of things 397 00:17:59,260 --> 00:17:57,320 going on here it's still early in the 398 00:18:01,210 --> 00:17:59,270 conference of course there's been no 399 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:01,220 major anger none of that's actually gone 400 00:18:04,450 --> 00:18:03,050 on yet but it could happen and someone 401 00:18:08,140 --> 00:18:04,460 who's scouting out the situation today 402 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:08,150 is the scythe or hazard how you say your 403 00:18:12,670 --> 00:18:10,610 surname is fetch Dion trimmer we were 404 00:18:14,290 --> 00:18:12,680 close it's Yvette don't from all and and 405 00:18:15,370 --> 00:18:14,300 correct pronunciation on the side way 406 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:15,380 but I don't think that was our concern 407 00:18:18,850 --> 00:18:17,330 and thank you for having me here at at 408 00:18:20,650 --> 00:18:18,860 Australian skeptics funk it's very 409 00:18:23,380 --> 00:18:20,660 exciting when do you lie he lost 410 00:18:25,660 --> 00:18:23,390 I was I was last in Australia about two 411 00:18:27,550 --> 00:18:25,670 years ago for four National Science Week 412 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:27,560 and I had such a wonderful time I didn't 413 00:18:31,090 --> 00:18:28,970 get to Sydney last time though is mainly 414 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:31,100 in Melbourne and I missed the coffee 415 00:18:34,750 --> 00:18:32,450 here so much 416 00:18:36,610 --> 00:18:34,760 yeah that's something we can I'm not 417 00:18:39,130 --> 00:18:36,620 really caught I have bad coffee in the 418 00:18:40,870 --> 00:18:39,140 morning that's I know I know I just try 419 00:18:42,940 --> 00:18:40,880 that in the way I go and what's so great 420 00:18:45,190 --> 00:18:42,950 about it here it's it's just well 421 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:45,200 Starbucks over roast there being so much 422 00:18:49,030 --> 00:18:46,730 and we're used to burnt coffee and when 423 00:18:50,830 --> 00:18:49,040 you over roast you get rid of all those 424 00:18:52,270 --> 00:18:50,840 wonderful subtle notes and all you get 425 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:52,280 is really this burnt flavor and it's 426 00:18:56,410 --> 00:18:54,290 kind of a bit of an acrylamide flavor 427 00:18:58,750 --> 00:18:56,420 which that's a carcinogen people your 428 00:19:00,430 --> 00:18:58,760 coffee has a carcinogen in it how did 429 00:19:02,500 --> 00:19:00,440 they get into the habit of doing that in 430 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:02,510 the first place Jim Lee in America I I'm 431 00:19:06,190 --> 00:19:04,250 not sure I don't know who struck first 432 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:06,200 but they blocked out the Sun but they 433 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:07,730 you know it started with people thinking 434 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:09,890 that you know dark roast was a stronger 435 00:19:13,990 --> 00:19:12,290 or or you know more because people want 436 00:19:15,250 --> 00:19:14,000 their caffeine in the morning and I 437 00:19:17,170 --> 00:19:15,260 think there was this general thought 438 00:19:20,290 --> 00:19:17,180 that the darker the roast this was a 439 00:19:22,360 --> 00:19:20,300 stronger hit in the morning and really 440 00:19:24,730 --> 00:19:22,370 the more you roast it the more you kill 441 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:24,740 that caffeine as well so a lighter roast 442 00:19:28,930 --> 00:19:26,330 gives you all of this wonderful subtle 443 00:19:30,700 --> 00:19:28,940 subtle flavors and because where we are 444 00:19:32,350 --> 00:19:30,710 those hipsters my husband has actually 445 00:19:34,300 --> 00:19:32,360 started roasting our own beans and the 446 00:19:35,770 --> 00:19:34,310 support it takes you know it's next to 447 00:19:37,990 --> 00:19:35,780 penny-farthing bicycle in the pith 448 00:19:40,030 --> 00:19:38,000 helmet it's you know if I'm just saying 449 00:19:42,630 --> 00:19:40,040 if he starts if he starts wearing the 450 00:19:45,100 --> 00:19:42,640 the cat well he already has a beard and 451 00:19:46,510 --> 00:19:45,110 it's you know we're we're kind of 452 00:19:49,090 --> 00:19:46,520 self-admitted hipsters but it's really 453 00:19:50,890 --> 00:19:49,100 just the coffee it's it I like to say 454 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:50,900 it's just the coffee have you ever been 455 00:19:53,860 --> 00:19:52,610 in a conference giving a talk where what 456 00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:53,870 I just mentioned earlier happens where 457 00:19:57,370 --> 00:19:56,090 someone gets up and go I wrote a PhD on 458 00:19:59,770 --> 00:19:57,380 what you're talking about and lady 459 00:20:02,080 --> 00:19:59,780 you're wrong anything it's I've never 460 00:20:03,670 --> 00:20:02,090 had someone get up and say I have a PhD 461 00:20:04,669 --> 00:20:03,680 in the subject and you're wrong but I've 462 00:20:06,499 --> 00:20:04,679 definitely had people 463 00:20:08,419 --> 00:20:06,509 yell at me that I'm wrong and it's the 464 00:20:12,169 --> 00:20:08,429 thing that I have people scream the most 465 00:20:14,149 --> 00:20:12,179 angrily about is is GMOs and that's the 466 00:20:16,369 --> 00:20:14,159 one like one day I hope that one just 467 00:20:18,499 --> 00:20:16,379 goes away and that people kind of accept 468 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:18,509 it but it's everyone at every skeptic 469 00:20:22,909 --> 00:20:20,129 conference I go to knows this wonderful 470 00:20:24,769 --> 00:20:22,919 arthur c clarke quote any any 471 00:20:26,269 --> 00:20:24,779 efficiently advanced technology is 472 00:20:27,649 --> 00:20:26,279 indistinguishable from magic 473 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:27,659 and i think that's kind of what's 474 00:20:32,269 --> 00:20:29,850 happening with GMOs because we're 475 00:20:33,950 --> 00:20:32,279 willing to accept new technology when 476 00:20:35,389 --> 00:20:33,960 it's in our phone when it's in the palm 477 00:20:37,460 --> 00:20:35,399 of our hand so that we can send that 478 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:37,470 angry tweet saying GMOs are the devil 479 00:20:41,029 --> 00:20:38,850 but we don't want to accept the new 480 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:41,039 technology even though it's much older 481 00:20:45,350 --> 00:20:42,690 than our iPhone when it's in the form of 482 00:20:47,930 --> 00:20:45,360 GMOs it's it's scary it's sound scary 483 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:47,940 and it's very easy to make sound scarier 484 00:20:51,529 --> 00:20:50,129 on the internet so I hope people will 485 00:20:53,810 --> 00:20:51,539 look into what the scientists who 486 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:53,820 actually study this for a living or 487 00:20:58,249 --> 00:20:56,129 saying about it because it is so less 488 00:21:00,320 --> 00:20:58,259 scarier and I fell for this one at one 489 00:21:02,539 --> 00:21:00,330 point in time too so I'm a convert from 490 00:21:04,159 --> 00:21:02,549 being afraid of GMOs I hope people will 491 00:21:06,049 --> 00:21:04,169 look into what the researchers say about 492 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:06,059 this the actual researchers who work on 493 00:21:10,700 --> 00:21:08,730 this from listening to people at it and 494 00:21:13,340 --> 00:21:10,710 also a bit true in the vaccine community 495 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:13,350 an T vaccine is that it's yeah they just 496 00:21:17,330 --> 00:21:15,090 trust the science but it made sense with 497 00:21:19,789 --> 00:21:17,340 the application of the capitalism to 498 00:21:22,009 --> 00:21:19,799 that science so the GMO is kind of a bit 499 00:21:23,869 --> 00:21:22,019 of a worry but then you link Monsanto 500 00:21:25,070 --> 00:21:23,879 with that and same with the thing all 501 00:21:26,810 --> 00:21:25,080 they're selling their vaccinations to 502 00:21:28,639 --> 00:21:26,820 make money so it seems to be the 503 00:21:30,859 --> 00:21:28,649 business application seems to be as much 504 00:21:32,509 --> 00:21:30,869 a worry it's oh and I totally understand 505 00:21:33,830 --> 00:21:32,519 that because you know once upon a time 506 00:21:36,529 --> 00:21:33,840 in Monsanto at this point has been 507 00:21:38,269 --> 00:21:36,539 bought by BAE or another another company 508 00:21:39,649 --> 00:21:38,279 that's in this field but no serious big 509 00:21:41,029 --> 00:21:39,659 German chemical company what could go 510 00:21:42,169 --> 00:21:41,039 wrong oh yeah that's not there's never 511 00:21:43,399 --> 00:21:42,179 been a problem there but I mean I 512 00:21:45,980 --> 00:21:43,409 understand why people might have that 513 00:21:47,690 --> 00:21:45,990 concern Monsanto in the last about 30 514 00:21:49,669 --> 00:21:47,700 years really did change from the company 515 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:49,679 that they were once upon a time they 516 00:21:53,389 --> 00:21:51,450 moved away from being just purely a 517 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:53,399 chemical company more into it and more 518 00:21:55,999 --> 00:21:54,570 into the seed business and there's 519 00:21:57,950 --> 00:21:56,009 always that rumor that oh they control 520 00:22:00,440 --> 00:21:57,960 the global seed supply they only had 521 00:22:02,090 --> 00:22:00,450 about five percent of the global seed 522 00:22:04,580 --> 00:22:02,100 supply it really is much more 523 00:22:06,470 --> 00:22:04,590 diversified than people believe and I 524 00:22:08,810 --> 00:22:06,480 know that people are worried about you 525 00:22:10,909 --> 00:22:08,820 know it all being a money grab this is 526 00:22:14,770 --> 00:22:10,919 something kind of interesting companies 527 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:14,780 that make genetically modified seeds 528 00:22:19,750 --> 00:22:17,570 or sorry companies that make pesticides 529 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:19,760 in some countries abroad are kind of 530 00:22:23,770 --> 00:22:22,010 pushing back against GMO companies 531 00:22:26,470 --> 00:22:23,780 because GMOs reduce the use of 532 00:22:29,050 --> 00:22:26,480 pesticides meta analyses have shown that 533 00:22:31,990 --> 00:22:29,060 GMOs reduce the use of pesticides on 534 00:22:34,270 --> 00:22:32,000 average by about 37 percent so there's 535 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:34,280 you know pesticide companies that you 536 00:22:36,850 --> 00:22:35,570 know companies that don't produce seeds 537 00:22:39,070 --> 00:22:36,860 at all that they're hold bread and 538 00:22:41,770 --> 00:22:39,080 butter is the pesticides there they're 539 00:22:43,150 --> 00:22:41,780 gonna hurt from these GMOs and that I am 540 00:22:45,460 --> 00:22:43,160 okay with that you know the fewer 541 00:22:47,980 --> 00:22:45,470 chemicals and less dangerous chemicals 542 00:22:50,170 --> 00:22:47,990 we can use the better so I think we need 543 00:22:52,060 --> 00:22:50,180 to like you know there's there's money 544 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:52,070 to be made from selling use but there's 545 00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:54,050 money to be made from selling a lot of 546 00:22:57,760 --> 00:22:56,690 seeds is the terminal seeds still a 547 00:22:59,290 --> 00:22:57,770 thing to where they don't germinate 548 00:23:00,310 --> 00:22:59,300 again you can only use them once the 549 00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:00,320 people seem to be lied about that too 550 00:23:03,610 --> 00:23:02,570 and that is an understandable concern I 551 00:23:05,980 --> 00:23:03,620 know it sounds scary we've engineered 552 00:23:07,690 --> 00:23:05,990 this to end but the the practice of 553 00:23:09,850 --> 00:23:07,700 saving seed number one farmers can still 554 00:23:12,970 --> 00:23:09,860 do that with other seed and number two 555 00:23:15,190 --> 00:23:12,980 it really is up to the company to decide 556 00:23:17,770 --> 00:23:15,200 how will they do this now to having the 557 00:23:19,420 --> 00:23:17,780 seed terminate and I'm not I want to 558 00:23:21,340 --> 00:23:19,430 double check on the technology so please 559 00:23:24,010 --> 00:23:21,350 whoever's out there listening to this 560 00:23:26,350 --> 00:23:24,020 please fact-check me on this but even 561 00:23:28,930 --> 00:23:26,360 with it being terminated of technology 562 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:28,940 and having it so that they can't so that 563 00:23:32,740 --> 00:23:30,290 the farmers who buy it can't save the 564 00:23:35,140 --> 00:23:32,750 seed that's pretty standard because most 565 00:23:37,150 --> 00:23:35,150 farmers at this point if they want to 566 00:23:39,250 --> 00:23:37,160 save seed they're not buying from a 567 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:39,260 large seed company like Monsanto it get 568 00:23:44,170 --> 00:23:42,410 it is a much the return on investment 569 00:23:47,530 --> 00:23:44,180 for them to just buy the seed and not 570 00:23:49,150 --> 00:23:47,540 save it is is a pretty good ROI given 571 00:23:52,030 --> 00:23:49,160 the performance of these types of seeds 572 00:23:54,910 --> 00:23:52,040 and whatnot so it's the Terminator G and 573 00:23:57,070 --> 00:23:54,920 it doesn't really it doesn't really do 574 00:23:58,390 --> 00:23:57,080 anything in terms of health to us long 575 00:24:00,820 --> 00:23:58,400 term it's not like you you know you eat 576 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:00,830 the soybean that's not gonna that's not 577 00:24:03,940 --> 00:24:02,330 going to germinate again and you're not 578 00:24:05,430 --> 00:24:03,950 gonna jerk it doesn't do it I think I 579 00:24:08,530 --> 00:24:05,440 think and anything that's the concern 580 00:24:10,570 --> 00:24:08,540 but you know it's just it's it's just a 581 00:24:12,130 --> 00:24:10,580 plant and it's not the what happens to 582 00:24:13,990 --> 00:24:12,140 that little bit of its genetics it's not 583 00:24:16,180 --> 00:24:14,000 indicative of what's gonna happen to you 584 00:24:18,070 --> 00:24:16,190 when you eat it well that's the the wide 585 00:24:20,170 --> 00:24:18,080 picture with Monsanto or sang like that 586 00:24:21,220 --> 00:24:20,180 on the small picture retail is very 587 00:24:22,450 --> 00:24:21,230 suffering all over the world 588 00:24:24,310 --> 00:24:22,460 particularly here in Australia I'm sure 589 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:24,320 retails a tough gig in the u.s. to 590 00:24:27,220 --> 00:24:25,730 there's probably two things you can 591 00:24:29,470 --> 00:24:27,230 really sell a well now and that is 592 00:24:30,669 --> 00:24:29,480 baby stuff or pet stuff is there those 593 00:24:32,799 --> 00:24:30,679 the things that people love and they'll 594 00:24:34,930 --> 00:24:32,809 buy lots of things for them is it woo in 595 00:24:36,190 --> 00:24:34,940 that area that tends to pop up more than 596 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:36,200 anywhere else particular pets because 597 00:24:40,419 --> 00:24:37,730 they can't tell you this isn't working 598 00:24:42,610 --> 00:24:40,429 oh yes and I've seen homeopathic cures 599 00:24:45,190 --> 00:24:42,620 for our homeopathic remedies for pet 600 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:45,200 things and a couple years ago from from 601 00:24:48,430 --> 00:24:46,970 doing a demonstration with it I actually 602 00:24:50,889 --> 00:24:48,440 managed to get one of the homeopathic 603 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:50,899 pet remedies pulled from the market and 604 00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:53,570 it was a stuff called good dog and good 605 00:24:58,299 --> 00:24:56,090 dog claimed it was a homeopathic pet 606 00:25:00,009 --> 00:24:58,309 remedy and it said in the list now the 607 00:25:01,629 --> 00:25:00,019 way that homeopathic remedies are 608 00:25:03,070 --> 00:25:01,639 labeled is a little different than 609 00:25:05,980 --> 00:25:03,080 everything else when you look at a label 610 00:25:09,190 --> 00:25:05,990 on the paracetamol and the ibuprofen it 611 00:25:10,509 --> 00:25:09,200 says how many milligrams or grams of the 612 00:25:12,399 --> 00:25:10,519 active ingredient are in it when you 613 00:25:14,409 --> 00:25:12,409 look at a label on a product that has 614 00:25:17,110 --> 00:25:14,419 homeopathy is probably most listeners 615 00:25:20,230 --> 00:25:17,120 know it shows it by dilution and it has 616 00:25:22,289 --> 00:25:20,240 the lit the ingredients listed in Latin 617 00:25:25,269 --> 00:25:22,299 now unless you are a dilution 618 00:25:28,090 --> 00:25:25,279 homeopathic mixer person and you also 619 00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:28,100 happen to speak Latin like who knows 620 00:25:33,490 --> 00:25:31,490 what 6x natrum muriaticum means it 621 00:25:38,019 --> 00:25:33,500 happen I believe it means you've diluted 622 00:25:40,060 --> 00:25:38,029 salt a solution of one one part salt in 623 00:25:42,220 --> 00:25:40,070 100 parts water I could be mixing up the 624 00:25:45,039 --> 00:25:42,230 things on that six times over so it 625 00:25:48,129 --> 00:25:45,049 Natura muriaticum sounds fancy it's salt 626 00:25:50,500 --> 00:25:48,139 its salt our Seneca mal is arsenic they 627 00:25:52,629 --> 00:25:50,510 have arsenic and belladonna and all of 628 00:25:54,580 --> 00:25:52,639 these as ingredients just in most cases 629 00:25:56,139 --> 00:25:54,590 diluted to the point where there's 630 00:25:59,320 --> 00:25:56,149 nothing left now back to the good dog 631 00:26:01,120 --> 00:25:59,330 you know it woof oh yes good dog 632 00:26:03,490 --> 00:26:01,130 so it's said that it had all of these as 633 00:26:06,279 --> 00:26:03,500 active ingredients and then in the 634 00:26:09,340 --> 00:26:06,289 inactive ingredients it had 13 percent 635 00:26:11,740 --> 00:26:09,350 alcohol that was this alcohol ACCA's 636 00:26:16,389 --> 00:26:11,750 wine so I made a little video of me 637 00:26:18,250 --> 00:26:16,399 getting drunk on this remedy what's 13 638 00:26:20,799 --> 00:26:18,260 percent alcohol that that would be an 639 00:26:22,870 --> 00:26:20,809 Evoque - oh now I'd be 120 now 20 640 00:26:24,940 --> 00:26:22,880 percent is and I've found I've also 641 00:26:26,769 --> 00:26:24,950 found a poem he experimented deeply and 642 00:26:28,659 --> 00:26:26,779 long into the night about this and I'm 643 00:26:30,100 --> 00:26:28,669 not a drinker so it I know it takes very 644 00:26:31,810 --> 00:26:30,110 little to get me drunk but I got a tiny 645 00:26:34,149 --> 00:26:31,820 little breathalyzer and showed here I am 646 00:26:35,799 --> 00:26:34,159 getting wasted on Dogma and but here's 647 00:26:37,899 --> 00:26:35,809 the thing dogs don't process alcohol 648 00:26:38,990 --> 00:26:37,909 well they really can't it's bad for 649 00:26:40,820 --> 00:26:39,000 their livers 650 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:40,830 Sugar's are bad for them so now there 651 00:26:44,360 --> 00:26:42,810 are and I mean alcohol it is they cannot 652 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:44,370 process it and I mean you know they 653 00:26:47,630 --> 00:26:45,810 could probably have a cap full of a 654 00:26:49,670 --> 00:26:47,640 stuff and be fine but there were people 655 00:26:52,430 --> 00:26:49,680 I looked on one of the websites of one 656 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:52,440 of the pet stores that that sold it in 657 00:26:55,910 --> 00:26:53,970 the US and there were people saying you 658 00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:55,920 know this is great my dog is doing great 659 00:27:00,050 --> 00:26:57,210 on this I can't I have to buy two 660 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:00,060 bottles a week I'm like your how is your 661 00:27:05,660 --> 00:27:02,490 dog man I hope your dogs big my god but 662 00:27:07,340 --> 00:27:05,670 they ended up pulling it after the video 663 00:27:09,620 --> 00:27:07,350 and after some outcry from a small 664 00:27:12,140 --> 00:27:09,630 petition but it's like you know just 665 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:12,150 because something is natural or says you 666 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:13,650 know works you know just because 667 00:27:16,550 --> 00:27:14,850 something says it works naturally 668 00:27:18,740 --> 00:27:16,560 doesn't mean it's good for your animal 669 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:18,750 or for your baby like I'm sorry you know 670 00:27:22,850 --> 00:27:20,610 polio is natural this is not good for 671 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:22,860 your child like please you know talk to 672 00:27:26,450 --> 00:27:24,570 your talk to your doctor talk to your 673 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:26,460 veterinarian your pediatrician before 674 00:27:30,830 --> 00:27:28,410 you just look at a label and go oh it's 675 00:27:32,330 --> 00:27:30,840 natural because you know you your health 676 00:27:34,790 --> 00:27:32,340 your animals health your child's health 677 00:27:36,980 --> 00:27:34,800 they're they're worth it I mean I'm I'm 678 00:27:38,450 --> 00:27:36,990 a chemist who kind of knows how to read 679 00:27:40,370 --> 00:27:38,460 labels pretty well but I go to my doctor 680 00:27:42,140 --> 00:27:40,380 and to my registered dietician and to 681 00:27:44,420 --> 00:27:42,150 all of these experts who know more than 682 00:27:45,590 --> 00:27:44,430 me what I want to make sure I'm doing 683 00:27:48,110 --> 00:27:45,600 something right for my health so I urge 684 00:27:50,270 --> 00:27:48,120 you please do this do the same talk to 685 00:27:52,610 --> 00:27:50,280 an expert and what would you agree in I 686 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:52,620 have my bachelor's in chemistry I also 687 00:27:55,220 --> 00:27:53,850 have a bachelor's in theatre you know 688 00:27:56,930 --> 00:27:55,230 the chemistry was because I wanted a 689 00:27:59,270 --> 00:27:56,940 career theater was because daddy didn't 690 00:28:01,640 --> 00:27:59,280 hug me enough it's it could be worse he 691 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:01,650 could have hugged me too much and then I 692 00:28:05,180 --> 00:28:03,450 have a master's in forensics and by the 693 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:05,190 way if those jokes made you sad I'm so 694 00:28:10,310 --> 00:28:06,690 it's my life I'm coping with it how I 695 00:28:14,930 --> 00:28:10,320 can combination the theatre forensics 696 00:28:17,360 --> 00:28:14,940 chemistry gallows humor all the roll 697 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:17,370 around you want ch or Los Angeles or 698 00:28:20,690 --> 00:28:18,930 something with that with that resume cuz 699 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:20,700 I would scream every time they go 700 00:28:26,870 --> 00:28:24,210 enhance enhance like no we don't have an 701 00:28:29,810 --> 00:28:26,880 answer lab they can read someone's 702 00:28:32,120 --> 00:28:29,820 reflection on a bolt on an aircraft yeah 703 00:28:34,850 --> 00:28:32,130 oh yeah it's a we can that's totally how 704 00:28:36,980 --> 00:28:34,860 it know I had one of the craziest things 705 00:28:38,540 --> 00:28:36,990 from X after I'd have my degree and had 706 00:28:41,510 --> 00:28:38,550 worked in the field a little bit I had a 707 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:41,520 roommate who said to me and she she 708 00:28:46,070 --> 00:28:43,290 worked in I think she was a junior high 709 00:28:47,330 --> 00:28:46,080 history teacher and no offense to junior 710 00:28:48,590 --> 00:28:47,340 high Oh story teachers but I'm just 711 00:28:50,930 --> 00:28:48,600 saying I might know a little bit more 712 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:50,940 about forensics this she does she's like 713 00:28:54,330 --> 00:28:51,850 you know I 714 00:28:56,610 --> 00:28:54,340 a friend who works in Los Angeles and 715 00:28:58,620 --> 00:28:56,620 she says that they have people who were 716 00:29:00,360 --> 00:28:58,630 who have degrees in this who really 717 00:29:01,919 --> 00:29:00,370 consult on these shows I'm like and I 718 00:29:03,390 --> 00:29:01,929 have a master this is in this and I'm 719 00:29:04,919 --> 00:29:03,400 telling you they just contaminated the 720 00:29:06,150 --> 00:29:04,929 crime scene okay 721 00:29:08,310 --> 00:29:06,160 they come in they walk around they 722 00:29:09,930 --> 00:29:08,320 aren't wearing the little booties like 723 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:09,940 that yeah all that so stuff going on 724 00:29:13,799 --> 00:29:12,370 it's I mean there there is really some 725 00:29:15,630 --> 00:29:13,809 atrocious stuff that happens on the show 726 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:15,640 so if you watch these shows and think oh 727 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:17,410 yeah I could handle a crime scene 728 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:19,450 no you couldn't like there's it was like 729 00:29:22,230 --> 00:29:20,770 it when they pick the gun up with the 730 00:29:24,180 --> 00:29:22,240 pencil and they don't check to see if 731 00:29:26,370 --> 00:29:24,190 the safety zone because the pencil could 732 00:29:28,169 --> 00:29:26,380 buy the gun there's there's so much 733 00:29:30,270 --> 00:29:28,179 there's just so much bad that happens 734 00:29:31,230 --> 00:29:30,280 there and there are a couple of there 735 00:29:33,060 --> 00:29:31,240 are a couple things that we have to 736 00:29:34,799 --> 00:29:33,070 remember in that are some guiding 737 00:29:37,590 --> 00:29:34,809 principles in forensics and number one 738 00:29:40,110 --> 00:29:37,600 is la cartes principle and that's every 739 00:29:42,510 --> 00:29:40,120 contact leaves a trace when you see 740 00:29:45,270 --> 00:29:42,520 anyone picking up an artifact or picking 741 00:29:47,070 --> 00:29:45,280 up something in a crime scene they're 742 00:29:48,630 --> 00:29:47,080 they're leaving a contact on it they 743 00:29:49,919 --> 00:29:48,640 might be leaving oils from their skin 744 00:29:51,630 --> 00:29:49,929 they might leave believing whatever they 745 00:29:54,270 --> 00:29:51,640 touch that day so when you have a murder 746 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:54,280 scene when you have a serious crime 747 00:29:57,149 --> 00:29:55,690 scene like the type that they would be 748 00:29:58,980 --> 00:29:57,159 dealing with on these shows like because 749 00:30:00,210 --> 00:29:58,990 they're not they're not investigating a 750 00:30:02,789 --> 00:30:00,220 tiny little fender better they're 751 00:30:05,130 --> 00:30:02,799 investigating the big ones there would 752 00:30:07,620 --> 00:30:05,140 be people in full hat like in in full 753 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:07,630 Tyvek suits for the initial 754 00:30:11,220 --> 00:30:09,490 investigation at least in in you know 755 00:30:12,659 --> 00:30:11,230 like I did my Master's training in 756 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:12,669 England and that was how they handle 757 00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:15,370 them they're they have little racks that 758 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:16,690 they kind of put over the floor so that 759 00:30:20,310 --> 00:30:18,130 your footprints aren't even 760 00:30:22,740 --> 00:30:20,320 contaminating the scene so they are not 761 00:30:26,310 --> 00:30:22,750 rustling anything that it's so cautious 762 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:26,320 not to move a single hair or fiber out 763 00:30:31,140 --> 00:30:28,210 of place because within about four hours 764 00:30:33,779 --> 00:30:31,150 all the trace have about 80 90 percent 765 00:30:35,340 --> 00:30:33,789 of the trace evidence is just gone from 766 00:30:37,350 --> 00:30:35,350 the scene so I mean you know the 767 00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:37,360 obviously blood liquids will stay a 768 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:39,570 little bit more a little bit longer but 769 00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:42,250 anything that is in trace that you want 770 00:30:46,980 --> 00:30:44,770 to pick up with with tape lifts that 771 00:30:49,980 --> 00:30:46,990 goes away quickly you have to work very 772 00:30:51,180 --> 00:30:49,990 quickly very cautiously and my god get 773 00:30:52,860 --> 00:30:51,190 your hair out of your face 774 00:30:56,010 --> 00:30:52,870 put a gloves on like whenever I see 775 00:30:57,180 --> 00:30:56,020 these I know that there's a hair but you 776 00:30:59,549 --> 00:30:57,190 know there's a hair and makeup artist 777 00:31:01,980 --> 00:30:59,559 that they did a wonderful job getting 778 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:01,990 that hair looking beautiful and you know 779 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:04,090 it - all of the hair people working on 780 00:31:08,190 --> 00:31:05,410 the CSI type shows 781 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:08,200 you do beautiful work do beautiful work 782 00:31:12,330 --> 00:31:10,210 with ponytails man you can do beautiful 783 00:31:14,730 --> 00:31:12,340 work with ponytails be accurate with 784 00:31:15,750 --> 00:31:14,740 this you can like and I know that we 785 00:31:17,550 --> 00:31:15,760 don't have to have a hundred percent 786 00:31:18,900 --> 00:31:17,560 accurate science in these shows because 787 00:31:20,820 --> 00:31:18,910 you know science is kind of part of a 788 00:31:22,740 --> 00:31:20,830 plot device it gives us tension that's 789 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:22,750 how it's it's used in those like I don't 790 00:31:27,150 --> 00:31:25,090 go to see the Avengers to learn quantum 791 00:31:29,310 --> 00:31:27,160 physics I go to watch I got to watch 792 00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:29,320 Tony Stark beat up a robot spaceship 793 00:31:33,150 --> 00:31:31,450 alien you know and and that's fine but 794 00:31:36,570 --> 00:31:33,160 like the stuff that we can fix the stuff 795 00:31:38,970 --> 00:31:36,580 that doesn't change the flow of a movie 796 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:38,980 or a TV show and gives us a little bit 797 00:31:43,890 --> 00:31:42,010 more accuracy I think that that's okay 798 00:31:46,380 --> 00:31:43,900 to ask for that little bit more accuracy 799 00:31:48,450 --> 00:31:46,390 in it that's good demand if you like a 800 00:31:49,770 --> 00:31:48,460 bit of a forensic gym I would recommend 801 00:31:51,570 --> 00:31:49,780 a Charlie Brooker of course who did 802 00:31:53,970 --> 00:31:51,580 Black Mirror he produced a touch of 803 00:31:56,820 --> 00:31:53,980 cloth in the UK which is a parody of 804 00:31:59,130 --> 00:31:56,830 every English English long-winded crime 805 00:32:00,750 --> 00:31:59,140 shave ever seen you know an inspector 806 00:32:03,180 --> 00:32:00,760 visit so that sort of thing and he's got 807 00:32:05,370 --> 00:32:03,190 the same people acting it so it'll be it 808 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:05,380 looks like a regular English slow-moving 809 00:32:08,790 --> 00:32:07,570 crime show like Inspector Morse except 810 00:32:10,260 --> 00:32:08,800 they're making jokes and it's great one 811 00:32:12,780 --> 00:32:10,270 about the forensics like the forensics 812 00:32:14,310 --> 00:32:12,790 woman is incredibly like she's sexually 813 00:32:17,070 --> 00:32:14,320 frustrated and she manages to get that 814 00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:17,080 into every single line until people are 815 00:32:20,370 --> 00:32:18,610 just and they love to have the great 816 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:20,380 thing also English crime shows you have 817 00:32:24,030 --> 00:32:22,450 the black owner so you have perspex 818 00:32:25,710 --> 00:32:24,040 around the crime scene and he's telling 819 00:32:27,270 --> 00:32:25,720 everybody about it and occasionally the 820 00:32:29,550 --> 00:32:27,280 camera bumps into the perspex that's 821 00:32:30,990 --> 00:32:29,560 there because as Charlie Brooker said 822 00:32:32,730 --> 00:32:31,000 why is there perspex around a crime 823 00:32:34,830 --> 00:32:32,740 scene so the camera can shoot around it 824 00:32:36,510 --> 00:32:34,840 you would not have a perspex board where 825 00:32:38,100 --> 00:32:36,520 you put the clues up because why would 826 00:32:40,020 --> 00:32:38,110 you want to want the board like that so 827 00:32:41,970 --> 00:32:40,030 yeah it's quite a touch of cloth give it 828 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:41,980 a look yeah I like to say that I had one 829 00:32:47,070 --> 00:32:44,170 of my professors in grad school he was a 830 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:47,080 parody of a proper English CSI and his 831 00:32:50,910 --> 00:32:49,690 his name was and I'm gonna I didn't 832 00:32:54,180 --> 00:32:50,920 agenda guile mine he was saying 833 00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:54,190 something I apologize to anyone who to 834 00:32:58,350 --> 00:32:56,530 any of my British brethren out there I'm 835 00:32:59,970 --> 00:32:58,360 about to butcher his accident but really 836 00:33:01,860 --> 00:32:59,980 he talked kind of without moving his 837 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:01,870 lips all that much who knows it was this 838 00:33:05,730 --> 00:33:03,850 very subdued accident but he didn't he 839 00:33:07,410 --> 00:33:05,740 didn't like the American forensics at 840 00:33:09,090 --> 00:33:07,420 all he thought that from the couple of 841 00:33:10,590 --> 00:33:09,100 cop shows that he'd seen that he 842 00:33:12,180 --> 00:33:10,600 completely understood the type of 843 00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:12,190 forensic scientist I would be and there 844 00:33:15,660 --> 00:33:13,690 was there's one day he was describing 845 00:33:17,970 --> 00:33:15,670 this cop show that kind of showed bad 846 00:33:18,510 --> 00:33:17,980 American forensics and I'm like yeah 847 00:33:20,190 --> 00:33:18,520 if you're 848 00:33:22,020 --> 00:33:20,200 watching cops you're watching idiots 849 00:33:23,700 --> 00:33:22,030 toil with other and I have no idea what 850 00:33:25,500 --> 00:33:23,710 show he was talking about but he salts 851 00:33:27,810 --> 00:33:25,510 describing the show to the class enough 852 00:33:29,610 --> 00:33:27,820 to after saying what it was he like it 853 00:33:31,140 --> 00:33:29,620 was like he turned just I was in only 854 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:31,150 her that I was one of two Americans in 855 00:33:35,070 --> 00:33:32,290 the class but I was the loudmouth 856 00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:35,080 jackass nothing has changed he he turns 857 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:37,570 his body to me and then this rants like 858 00:33:42,270 --> 00:33:39,610 he's like under Americans the way they 859 00:33:44,580 --> 00:33:42,280 do forensics is her I'm like my god Dave 860 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:44,590 I get it but like instead of complaining 861 00:33:48,780 --> 00:33:46,690 about it to me build a better class of 862 00:33:50,310 --> 00:33:48,790 American forensic scientists I'm here 863 00:33:52,020 --> 00:33:50,320 learning from you not to get a lecture 864 00:33:56,580 --> 00:33:52,030 on all the guys who scraping it up 865 00:33:57,600 --> 00:33:56,590 before me we're in the green room now 866 00:33:59,910 --> 00:33:57,610 the Grammy was called that because 867 00:34:01,800 --> 00:33:59,920 actors before like often go on to a play 868 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:01,810 uh sick and they turn green I think 869 00:34:03,510 --> 00:34:03,130 that's how it happened there Hoover got 870 00:34:05,910 --> 00:34:03,520 here 871 00:34:08,340 --> 00:34:05,920 I'm vom Sharma I'm a GP from Melbourne 872 00:34:10,889 --> 00:34:08,350 and fellow skeptic and that what's your 873 00:34:12,630 --> 00:34:10,899 panel going to be about so the panel is 874 00:34:13,860 --> 00:34:12,640 going to be something's wrong on the 875 00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:13,870 internet it's great to be addressing 876 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:16,210 misinformation and con misconceptions 877 00:34:19,710 --> 00:34:18,010 perhaps about our health better and 878 00:34:20,850 --> 00:34:19,720 widespread they're just talking dr. Karl 879 00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:20,860 about this you said arguing on the 880 00:34:24,419 --> 00:34:22,210 Internet can be productive but it's 881 00:34:26,940 --> 00:34:24,429 often trolls and do get on there and 882 00:34:29,550 --> 00:34:26,950 argue much yourself or is it really not 883 00:34:30,870 --> 00:34:29,560 of much value I certainly discuss 884 00:34:32,730 --> 00:34:30,880 adequately discuss more than argue 885 00:34:35,159 --> 00:34:32,740 castle but yet the art of spotting the 886 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:35,169 troll is pretty much half the battle and 887 00:34:37,740 --> 00:34:36,490 it's good as soon as you spot him you 888 00:34:39,750 --> 00:34:37,750 know you're gonna get nowhere and you 889 00:34:41,070 --> 00:34:39,760 can ignore them because 99% of the time 890 00:34:43,260 --> 00:34:41,080 all they really want is the attention 891 00:34:45,300 --> 00:34:43,270 and validation off your replies yeah 892 00:34:46,830 --> 00:34:45,310 because it is usually something kind of 893 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:46,840 insulting that's meant to like get you 894 00:34:49,409 --> 00:34:48,490 back up and you go are a real person 895 00:34:51,690 --> 00:34:49,419 wouldn't argue with that 896 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:51,700 exactly and they'd never dare do it to 897 00:34:56,399 --> 00:34:54,370 your face and so it's easy to kind of 898 00:34:57,990 --> 00:34:56,409 pick out the cowards and yeah I mean 899 00:35:00,240 --> 00:34:58,000 I've seen people were very good at kind 900 00:35:02,700 --> 00:35:00,250 of trolling back and we own all their 901 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:02,710 powers but it's it's quite funny how 902 00:35:06,660 --> 00:35:05,050 just ignoring them get under their skin 903 00:35:09,300 --> 00:35:06,670 and the replies come one after another 904 00:35:11,430 --> 00:35:09,310 note tweets retweets not every like so 905 00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:11,440 and they're disappointed so with what 906 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:13,690 what doctors don't know you probably 907 00:35:16,650 --> 00:35:14,890 won't get anyone that's gonna go out 908 00:35:18,420 --> 00:35:16,660 well homeopathy has the answer that's 909 00:35:19,650 --> 00:35:18,430 not going to happen here no that's not 910 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:19,660 gonna happen here presumably that's 911 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:22,090 right but on the other hand you know I'm 912 00:35:24,990 --> 00:35:23,410 going to be addressing perhaps there is 913 00:35:26,430 --> 00:35:25,000 some skepticism towards the doctors that 914 00:35:28,890 --> 00:35:26,440 maybe is well addressed and more 915 00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:28,900 importantly maybe doctors themselves can 916 00:35:31,990 --> 00:35:30,650 be more skeptical you know to 917 00:35:33,370 --> 00:35:32,000 normal thing in medicine to not have all 918 00:35:34,690 --> 00:35:33,380 the answers so there's still general 919 00:35:36,549 --> 00:35:34,700 principles of skepticism that we can 920 00:35:37,690 --> 00:35:36,559 apply well then I think GPUs are great 921 00:35:39,370 --> 00:35:37,700 because they're at the front line the 922 00:35:41,470 --> 00:35:39,380 coalface of everything that goes on and 923 00:35:42,190 --> 00:35:41,480 also you have to know at once you have 924 00:35:44,890 --> 00:35:42,200 know a little bit about everything 925 00:35:46,690 --> 00:35:44,900 because everything you'll have an STI 926 00:35:48,069 --> 00:35:46,700 then you'll have a psychological problem 927 00:35:49,180 --> 00:35:48,079 to deal with and then you might have a 928 00:35:50,260 --> 00:35:49,190 family thing that's going on the 929 00:35:52,420 --> 00:35:50,270 background you just have to know 930 00:35:54,430 --> 00:35:52,430 everything one after the other that's 931 00:35:56,529 --> 00:35:54,440 right and one of the challenges with 932 00:35:58,120 --> 00:35:56,539 that is in fact one of the null parts of 933 00:35:59,529 --> 00:35:58,130 the job of being a generalist is that 934 00:36:01,599 --> 00:35:59,539 you by definition 935 00:36:03,700 --> 00:36:01,609 don't know many things that's why you're 936 00:36:05,500 --> 00:36:03,710 a generalist and not a specialist so 937 00:36:07,150 --> 00:36:05,510 it's they say it's one of the most 938 00:36:08,950 --> 00:36:07,160 difficult aspects of the job and it 939 00:36:11,079 --> 00:36:08,960 takes a good decade or two is to become 940 00:36:12,579 --> 00:36:11,089 comfortable with sometimes not knowing 941 00:36:14,319 --> 00:36:12,589 and probably the best piece of advice I 942 00:36:15,970 --> 00:36:14,329 was given was your job as GPS not 943 00:36:17,829 --> 00:36:15,980 necessarily to know what the right 944 00:36:20,799 --> 00:36:17,839 answer it's to know what the next right 945 00:36:22,630 --> 00:36:20,809 thing is to do so there's a lot of good 946 00:36:24,220 --> 00:36:22,640 it's difficult finding comfort in the 947 00:36:26,410 --> 00:36:24,230 ignorant spirit but it's important and 948 00:36:28,029 --> 00:36:26,420 how do you do with the time constraints 949 00:36:29,829 --> 00:36:28,039 as well because sometimes you might have 950 00:36:31,569 --> 00:36:29,839 maybe as much as half an hour at 951 00:36:33,279 --> 00:36:31,579 somewhat tops and you've got a sob some 952 00:36:34,599 --> 00:36:33,289 difficult stuff in that time it's so 953 00:36:36,579 --> 00:36:34,609 funny he said half an hour because to me 954 00:36:38,980 --> 00:36:36,589 that's in the ER normally it's like 955 00:36:41,019 --> 00:36:38,990 normally it's 15 minutes but an extended 956 00:36:42,190 --> 00:36:41,029 one which I have had but some days has 957 00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:42,200 been that that's right and I mean 958 00:36:45,309 --> 00:36:43,130 there's some of the most satisfying 959 00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:45,319 consultation some of the longest ones in 960 00:36:49,690 --> 00:36:46,490 fact when I do there's longer 961 00:36:51,460 --> 00:36:49,700 consultations it really reminds me of 962 00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:51,470 what you know what we're losing out of 963 00:36:54,730 --> 00:36:52,970 medicine what patients are losing out on 964 00:36:57,010 --> 00:36:54,740 as well so much kind of rapport 965 00:36:58,450 --> 00:36:57,020 trust-building you know we can build a 966 00:37:01,710 --> 00:36:58,460 common understanding towards things 967 00:37:04,690 --> 00:37:01,720 which is very difficult to do in 15 968 00:37:06,130 --> 00:37:04,700 minutes so it's a constant challenge we 969 00:37:08,799 --> 00:37:06,140 have to put up with and if we can 970 00:37:10,359 --> 00:37:08,809 somehow align the the incentives and 971 00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:10,369 logistics to make those longer 972 00:37:14,140 --> 00:37:12,770 consultations easier I think healthcare 973 00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:14,150 is going to improve dramatically in 974 00:37:17,829 --> 00:37:16,130 certainly people's relationship with 975 00:37:19,930 --> 00:37:17,839 healthcare instead of a very unhealthy 976 00:37:22,359 --> 00:37:19,940 relationship we have as a result of the 977 00:37:24,490 --> 00:37:22,369 modern wellness movement oh yeah and 978 00:37:25,779 --> 00:37:24,500 have you get many people that who want 979 00:37:27,250 --> 00:37:25,789 you to sign something about them not to 980 00:37:29,650 --> 00:37:27,260 get vaccinated does that happen with the 981 00:37:31,450 --> 00:37:29,660 people in your area okay fortunately I 982 00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:31,460 happen to be practicing it was 983 00:37:34,750 --> 00:37:33,170 particularly well educated 984 00:37:36,250 --> 00:37:34,760 area so I'm often dealing with the 985 00:37:38,740 --> 00:37:36,260 opposite end which is people are very 986 00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:38,750 kind of health anxious and have really 987 00:37:42,039 --> 00:37:40,010 looked things up no usually done a 988 00:37:44,380 --> 00:37:42,049 pretty good job of them however when I 989 00:37:45,759 --> 00:37:44,390 have practiced here in other areas I 990 00:37:47,319 --> 00:37:45,769 I've had a couple of parrots who kind of 991 00:37:49,900 --> 00:37:47,329 come up to me and ask me to design 992 00:37:50,650 --> 00:37:49,910 things and it's it's always a tough 993 00:37:52,569 --> 00:37:50,660 consultation 994 00:37:54,039 --> 00:37:52,579 yeah and is there is it mainly they're 995 00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:54,049 suspicious of the science or at some 996 00:37:57,549 --> 00:37:55,130 religious grounds they want the 997 00:37:58,809 --> 00:37:57,559 exemption for I've had a bit of both 998 00:38:01,390 --> 00:37:58,819 actually and when they've been 999 00:38:04,299 --> 00:38:01,400 suspicious of the science and I think in 1000 00:38:05,529 --> 00:38:04,309 there I'm partly sympathetic because at 1001 00:38:07,299 --> 00:38:05,539 the end of the day they want the same 1002 00:38:09,819 --> 00:38:07,309 thing I want and everyone else wants the 1003 00:38:11,140 --> 00:38:09,829 best outcome for their child and so 1004 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:11,150 there is a common ground there that we 1005 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:13,130 can kind of start off on and I've 1006 00:38:17,380 --> 00:38:15,410 certainly had patients who come to me 1007 00:38:19,210 --> 00:38:17,390 who said in the past look I've refused 1008 00:38:20,980 --> 00:38:19,220 vaccines for me and my child before now 1009 00:38:22,299 --> 00:38:20,990 I want to get vaccinated so just I think 1010 00:38:24,370 --> 00:38:22,309 goes to show that you know you can't 1011 00:38:26,799 --> 00:38:24,380 make up for lost ground sometimes my 1012 00:38:28,870 --> 00:38:26,809 dad's ninety and he's advice to me these 1013 00:38:30,730 --> 00:38:28,880 two hobbies are going to Aldi and going 1014 00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:30,740 to the GP loves it loves doctors he 1015 00:38:33,609 --> 00:38:32,210 loves doctors because they listen to him 1016 00:38:34,870 --> 00:38:33,619 they're paid listened to and his thing 1017 00:38:36,490 --> 00:38:34,880 you still look he said son when you go 1018 00:38:38,019 --> 00:38:36,500 there you've got to make a list of what 1019 00:38:39,609 --> 00:38:38,029 you're gonna do and follow that list now 1020 00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:39,619 is that a good idea what a GP or does 1021 00:38:43,299 --> 00:38:41,210 that maybe stop you thinking of other 1022 00:38:44,740 --> 00:38:43,309 things that might be useful well in 1023 00:38:46,539 --> 00:38:44,750 terms of a list of problems to discuss 1024 00:38:48,299 --> 00:38:46,549 the regime generally speaking that's 1025 00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:48,309 actually a very good idea however 1026 00:38:51,970 --> 00:38:50,450 usually will happen with the experienced 1027 00:38:53,829 --> 00:38:51,980 GP is at the beginning of the 1028 00:38:56,950 --> 00:38:53,839 consultation they'll help you prioritize 1029 00:38:58,150 --> 00:38:56,960 that list so well yeah I have no more 1030 00:39:00,190 --> 00:38:58,160 than three things where my dad might 1031 00:39:01,509 --> 00:39:00,200 have six you say well yeah a long list 1032 00:39:03,069 --> 00:39:01,519 is always going to be an issue and which 1033 00:39:04,690 --> 00:39:03,079 is probably why he's a bit of a frequent 1034 00:39:06,279 --> 00:39:04,700 flyer which we're happy to see them over 1035 00:39:08,589 --> 00:39:06,289 multiple consultations that's totally 1036 00:39:10,450 --> 00:39:08,599 cool but you know the most important 1037 00:39:11,890 --> 00:39:10,460 things first and sometimes people come 1038 00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:11,900 in complaining of this you know fine 1039 00:39:15,069 --> 00:39:13,490 taste in their mouth oh and by the way 1040 00:39:16,930 --> 00:39:15,079 I've got this little eagle in my chest 1041 00:39:18,849 --> 00:39:16,940 area and sometimes we have to 1042 00:39:21,220 --> 00:39:18,859 reprioritize something I think this 1043 00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:21,230 chest tell me all its that yeah there's 1044 00:39:24,099 --> 00:39:22,970 been a few times I've had to say ma'am I 1045 00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:24,109 think you're gonna have to cancel your 1046 00:39:28,900 --> 00:39:25,970 holiday and say and go to the emergency 1047 00:39:30,130 --> 00:39:28,910 for the weekend yeah it's been tough Wow 1048 00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:30,140 and then as that being one of the most 1049 00:39:33,190 --> 00:39:31,490 difficult times you've had as a GP 1050 00:39:34,630 --> 00:39:33,200 because normally you don't get intensive 1051 00:39:37,059 --> 00:39:34,640 care kind of stuff coming in there but 1052 00:39:39,130 --> 00:39:37,069 occasionally it can coincide with a bad 1053 00:39:41,499 --> 00:39:39,140 episode I found it very challenging when 1054 00:39:43,690 --> 00:39:41,509 I was practicing in in rural areas 1055 00:39:45,220 --> 00:39:43,700 because there you see problems people 1056 00:39:47,470 --> 00:39:45,230 save up their stuff to come in and they 1057 00:39:49,690 --> 00:39:47,480 yeah they do exactly and it's not easy 1058 00:39:51,370 --> 00:39:49,700 to go access a hospital so often they're 1059 00:39:53,499 --> 00:39:51,380 coming to you with urgencies and 1060 00:39:55,749 --> 00:39:53,509 emergencies and you have to manage those 1061 00:39:57,790 --> 00:39:55,759 things so so much of your work as a 1062 00:39:59,140 --> 00:39:57,800 general practitioner so geographical Bay 1063 00:40:00,550 --> 00:39:59,150 and where you are that's going to govern 1064 00:40:02,860 --> 00:40:00,560 the kind of things you see so you need 1065 00:40:04,240 --> 00:40:02,870 to be an expert in those Wow okay look I 1066 00:40:06,070 --> 00:40:04,250 hope you go well out there I hope you 1067 00:40:07,720 --> 00:40:06,080 don't get anyone who happens to be with 1068 00:40:08,980 --> 00:40:07,730 a PhD and something you're talking about 1069 00:40:11,830 --> 00:40:08,990 and standing up and going you're wrong 1070 00:40:14,980 --> 00:40:11,840 sir well I actually I'm very happy to be 1071 00:40:19,450 --> 00:40:14,990 corrected so hopefully it's not as 1072 00:40:20,770 --> 00:40:19,460 violent a reaction is that but always 1073 00:40:22,300 --> 00:40:20,780 happy to be corrected that's that's why 1074 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:22,310 we're all here right it's a place we can 1075 00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:24,410 find you online yeah so Twitter is a 1076 00:40:28,810 --> 00:40:26,090 good place to catch me so it's at dr. V 1077 00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:28,820 I'm at dr v y om that's where i'm 1078 00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:30,770 posting all my nonsense right thank you 1079 00:40:34,390 --> 00:40:32,330 because i and you win the coolest chair 1080 00:40:35,770 --> 00:40:34,400 prize today man that is good ah thank 1081 00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:35,780 you well simple but effective 1082 00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:38,450 I like ah hey I'm glad you appreciate it 1083 00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:45,430 have I spoken to you cuz you've had your 1084 00:40:50,770 --> 00:40:47,930 time on stage in the panel like what was 1085 00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:50,780 your what doctors no is that your one it 1086 00:40:55,060 --> 00:40:52,850 was someone is wrong on the internet 1087 00:40:56,530 --> 00:40:55,070 okay now we've talked about this about 1088 00:40:58,420 --> 00:40:56,540 the whole troll things that kind of 1089 00:40:59,380 --> 00:40:58,430 stuff how did it go first time on the 1090 00:41:01,390 --> 00:40:59,390 panel there did you get any good 1091 00:41:02,590 --> 00:41:01,400 questions a few people said people 1092 00:41:04,090 --> 00:41:02,600 weren't talking to the Michael on that 1093 00:41:05,410 --> 00:41:04,100 panel but they didn't say who was it 1094 00:41:07,060 --> 00:41:05,420 with occasionally people were turning 1095 00:41:09,370 --> 00:41:07,070 away from the mic that wasn't you was it 1096 00:41:11,650 --> 00:41:09,380 yeah probably no okay I mean experience 1097 00:41:13,030 --> 00:41:11,660 so we're getting people up pointing at 1098 00:41:14,530 --> 00:41:13,040 you and telling you wrong did you get 1099 00:41:16,060 --> 00:41:14,540 any stuff going on like that no cause 1100 00:41:18,250 --> 00:41:16,070 we're amongst friends obviously it has 1101 00:41:20,980 --> 00:41:18,260 acceptance but it was more about other 1102 00:41:24,190 --> 00:41:20,990 people and propagating myths and 1103 00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:24,200 nonsense I always think ignoring trolls 1104 00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:26,090 seems to be great ideas from talking to 1105 00:41:29,590 --> 00:41:28,130 the side babe and stuff in that but you 1106 00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:29,600 would agree with that but picking which 1107 00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:30,890 one's the trolls and which one just 1108 00:41:34,720 --> 00:41:33,170 asking dumb questions can be hardly well 1109 00:41:37,510 --> 00:41:34,730 also the idea is necessarily don't 1110 00:41:39,070 --> 00:41:37,520 confront the troll but that troll might 1111 00:41:41,710 --> 00:41:39,080 have an audience which you'll want to 1112 00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:41,720 address so you don't want to necessarily 1113 00:41:44,650 --> 00:41:43,370 tell them that they're wrong but you 1114 00:41:46,570 --> 00:41:44,660 want to tell anyone that might be 1115 00:41:47,980 --> 00:41:46,580 reading what they're writing that they 1116 00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:47,990 are wrong because the last thing you 1117 00:41:52,870 --> 00:41:50,570 want is for someone to be informing 1118 00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:52,880 people incorrectly okay what about in 1119 00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:55,010 person I spoke to dr. Karl earlier who 1120 00:41:58,540 --> 00:41:56,570 said the best way to deal that applied 1121 00:42:00,250 --> 00:41:58,550 and I had a dinner parties just to go 1122 00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:00,260 your scientifically incorrect and change 1123 00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:02,690 the subject would you had that strength 1124 00:42:05,730 --> 00:42:04,490 of character to do that and just leave 1125 00:42:08,790 --> 00:42:05,740 it or would you have to go for 1126 00:42:10,710 --> 00:42:08,800 gulia um it depends on the person that 1127 00:42:12,359 --> 00:42:10,720 you're arguing with if you think they 1128 00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:12,369 might actually change their mind that'd 1129 00:42:16,380 --> 00:42:13,570 be worth it otherwise all you're doing 1130 00:42:17,460 --> 00:42:16,390 is picking a fight so I'm very much when 1131 00:42:19,109 --> 00:42:17,470 it comes to these kind of things I'm 1132 00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:19,119 very much done confrontational yeah 1133 00:42:22,410 --> 00:42:21,010 that's a way to go there so the rest of 1134 00:42:26,130 --> 00:42:22,420 the weekend non confrontational for you 1135 00:42:27,930 --> 00:42:26,140 hmm well you know early days yet early 1136 00:42:29,460 --> 00:42:27,940 days yeah look there's a magician at the 1137 00:42:30,900 --> 00:42:29,470 whole dinner tonight with job hosting so 1138 00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:30,910 don't make a scene don't get up and 1139 00:42:34,380 --> 00:42:32,770 point that's not real magic that's just 1140 00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:34,390 a trick don't do that okay I want to 1141 00:42:53,940 --> 00:42:50,510 [Music] 1142 00:42:56,790 --> 00:42:53,950 hi this is dr. Pamela gay from astronomy 1143 00:42:58,680 --> 00:42:56,800 cast each week Fraser Cain and I take 1144 00:43:00,900 --> 00:42:58,690 our listeners on a fact-based journey 1145 00:43:03,630 --> 00:43:00,910 through the cosmos with our weekly 1146 00:43:06,420 --> 00:43:03,640 podcast we explain not just what we know 1147 00:43:09,300 --> 00:43:06,430 but how we know what we know about this 1148 00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:09,310 universe that we share check us out at 1149 00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:11,770 astronomy cast calm and look for us in 1150 00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:14,170 itunes google play and wherever you 1151 00:43:32,020 --> 00:43:17,970 download podcasts see online 1152 00:43:36,530 --> 00:43:34,460 thank you for listening to the skeptic 1153 00:43:38,390 --> 00:43:36,540 zone coming up on next week's show part 1154 00:43:41,450 --> 00:43:38,400 two of Maenads interview with the Yvette 1155 00:43:43,670 --> 00:43:41,460 Don Ramon and next week event we'll be 1156 00:43:46,970 --> 00:43:43,680 talking about supplements and what it's 1157 00:43:49,370 --> 00:43:46,980 like being in Trump's America also we 1158 00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:49,380 hope to bring you some insights and 1159 00:43:55,190 --> 00:43:52,410 reports and comments from skeptics in 1160 00:43:58,070 --> 00:43:55,200 the pub with David Rosenberg who is the 1161 00:44:00,380 --> 00:43:58,080 guest will be the guest when the next 1162 00:44:02,660 --> 00:44:00,390 show goes out plus a lot more interviews 1163 00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:02,670 from skeptic on without the speakers and 1164 00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:06,090 attendees another thank you from me to 1165 00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:08,490 the skeptic zone supporters a couple of 1166 00:44:15,230 --> 00:44:12,050 weeks ago I bought myself the zoom h6 1167 00:44:17,330 --> 00:44:15,240 microphone and mixer and I'll be using 1168 00:44:18,860 --> 00:44:17,340 that to conduct interviews and mixed 1169 00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:18,870 reports and things like that's and very 1170 00:44:25,550 --> 00:44:23,370 very nice piece of gear and I hope it 1171 00:44:29,030 --> 00:44:25,560 means that I'll be able to bring you 1172 00:44:30,230 --> 00:44:29,040 better sounding or more interesting now 1173 00:44:32,570 --> 00:44:30,240 that's not the right way to say it's 1174 00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:32,580 better sounding isn't it I hope it's 1175 00:44:37,670 --> 00:44:35,130 always interesting regardless I mean I 1176 00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:37,680 could even record all this on a cheap a 1177 00:44:42,590 --> 00:44:40,650 how old-fashioned real for real I had as 1178 00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:42,600 a kid as long as the content is 1179 00:44:45,860 --> 00:44:44,010 interesting but I do want to make it 1180 00:44:47,540 --> 00:44:45,870 sound good but anyway thank you very 1181 00:44:50,450 --> 00:44:47,550 much for all those people who contribute 1182 00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:50,460 to the show financially and the best way 1183 00:44:56,900 --> 00:44:52,770 to do that is to head to skeptic zone TV 1184 00:44:58,790 --> 00:44:56,910 and click the patreon link and your five 1185 00:45:00,650 --> 00:44:58,800 dollars for example a month goes a very 1186 00:45:05,540 --> 00:45:00,660 long way here at the skeptic zone and 1187 00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:05,550 some people even contribute more $10 or 1188 00:45:11,570 --> 00:45:08,850 $20 there's various packages available 1189 00:45:13,670 --> 00:45:11,580 if you're a for example are $10 a month 1190 00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:13,680 contributor I send you out a little 1191 00:45:21,230 --> 00:45:17,930 parcel of Gries and and so on but anyway 1192 00:45:23,570 --> 00:45:21,240 if you've never contributed to the 1193 00:45:25,460 --> 00:45:23,580 skeptic zone before chipped in please 1194 00:45:28,430 --> 00:45:25,470 consider doing that it helps keep the 1195 00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:28,440 show going oh and by the way yes the 1196 00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:30,330 skeptic zone cats really did like the 1197 00:45:35,090 --> 00:45:32,130 editor after all I wonder if they want 1198 00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:35,100 some more but for this week this is 1199 00:45:41,519 --> 00:45:37,410 Richard Saunders signing off from Sydney 1200 00:45:47,519 --> 00:45:44,019 you've been listening to the skeptic 1201 00:45:53,620 --> 00:45:47,529 zone podcast please visit our website at 1202 00:45:57,120 --> 00:45:53,630 wwlp.com tax and to access the bat 1203 00:45:59,799 --> 00:45:57,130 catalog of episodes going back to 2008 1204 00:46:03,099 --> 00:45:59,809 you can follow the skeptic zone podcast 1205 00:46:05,380 --> 00:46:03,109 on twitter at skeptic zone visit our 1206 00:46:08,739 --> 00:46:05,390 facebook page or leave a review on 1207 00:46:12,099 --> 00:46:08,749 itunes you can also support the skeptic 1208 00:46:14,469 --> 00:46:12,109 zone via patreon or PayPal the skeptic 1209 00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:14,479 zone podcast is an independent 1210 00:46:18,609 --> 00:46:16,249 production the views and opinions 1211 00:46:20,769 --> 00:46:18,619 expressed on the skeptic zone are not 1212 00:46:23,690 --> 00:46:20,779 necessarily those of Australian skeptics 1213 00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:23,700 or any other skeptical organization 1214 00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:38,310 now this is the normal evening routine 1215 00:46:42,450 --> 00:46:40,570 here at skeptic Zone headquarters what 1216 00:46:46,430 --> 00:46:42,460 do you want hmm 1217 00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:46,440 you want some dinner you had dinner 1218 00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:52,930 no really you have she doesn't believe